SPIDER WEBB

“All popular things in culture

are reflected in tattoos”

By Steven Cerio

Perhaps the most widely recognized and influential tattooist in the world today, SPIDER WEBB weaves a wonderful pattern of flesh-borne mayhem upon the arms, legs, and private parts of his thankful victims. Spider leaves his indelible mark deep within the arachnophobic psyches of both the Art scene and the Rock' scene while crawling in and out of the stinking shadows.

Most people think of tattooists as eccentric specialists hunched over the alcoholic carcasses of customers who pay cash, but in fact Spider is, among other things, a highly regarded performance artist as well as a painter and illustrator whose work is shown in galleries around the world.

As a tattoo artist he's led his fetid flock around the world a million times. As a business and archival-minded person he presides over that flock from the golden throne of the Tattoo Club of America, of which he is a founder. He is also the principal organizer of the Tattoo Convention, a logical extension of the current cultural codification of the tattoo scene, which, in addition to actual tattooing, consists of tattoo books and magazines, biker chic, and nostalgia for Flash Art and related weirdness.

Over the course of the past decade, the phenomenon of the Modern Primitive has propelled Spider out of the underground and into the mainstream - whatever that is - as the list of celebrities tattooed by his crafty hand grows longer and longer. As a crown prince of the boob tube, Spider has dirtied the sets of Donahue, Oprah, Geraldo, Sally Jesse Raphael, Hard Copy and A Current Affair, as well as making appearances on the monolithic media monster, MTV. When he wasn't busy getting famous, Spider spent his leisure time as author of Pushing Ink and Tattooed Women while squatting in his dungeon inventing the 3-D tattoo, the vampire tattoo (two red dots about the neck), and "scribblism" (tattooing with automatic writing).

In this brief space it would be impossible to list all of Spider's accomplishments - for example, tattooing postmodern porn star Annie Sprinkle on the steps of the

Metropolitan Museum of Art (much to the dismay of the police) or operating a tattoo studio / museum in the heart New York City - but suffice it to say that Spider has done all. After thirty years of service, the chosen one still creates change with each passing day.

SECONDS: When you were first starting out, were you forced to copy album covers and images like that?

WEBB: I guess people still want those things, sure. People want all sorts of things when they come for a tattoo. Some people come and they want just my work and other people have a particular idea or something their children drew they want tattooed on them. I've got to make some sort of value judgment whether I want to do it. Usually I try and keep everybody happy.

SECONDS: How has what people want changed over the years? What were some of the popular images ten years ago that people don't ask. for anymore?

WEBB: That kind of shit's always changing. Before all the tattoo books and magazines, tattooing was pretty stagnant because people were only exposed to what they saw in their own neighborhood. With all the exposure tattooing has now, people are exposed to different artists and ideas and they start to want that. Maybe in the Seventies, there couldn't be enough Frank Frazetta fantasy-type tattoos, and then something else comes into vogue … all the popular things in culture are reflected in tattoos. If somebody's doing a lot of Celtic work, its picked up by the media and the different magazines and then people see it and go, "Oh shit, that's cool." They're turned on to a whole other culture.

SECONDS: So the media has just opened the whole thing up?

WEBB: Yeah, sure. The media, Rock people, MTV - all that kind of crap. People see it and they want it. For a couple of years, they’re tattooing Frank Frazetta-type work, a couple years after that it's Celtic work, after that it's tribalism. You go back to the Fifties and Sixties and way before that, there's no such thing. It's all very figurative - I'm only talking about Western tattooing. It's very traditional. Like the tattoo I just put on my assistant, Sharon. She wanted something real straight and traditional, a heart with wings. "Love and life pass swiftly." That's what we did. We didn't do any highlights or anything; just a little shading on the wing and a heart and that says it all. You can't go wrong with the classics. Of course, the bulIshit of today is the classic of tomorrow.

SECONDS: Skulls have always been prevalent in tattooing. What' s the nature of that? Just that someone’s fear or longing for immortality?

WEBB: Catholicism, buddy. It's all Catholicism right there. You walk around Europe and you see these skulls on everything, or Rosary beads, on the churches. The series of paintings that I just finished, I did myself as a skull. You're constantly confronted with that ... especially when you go to the dentist; somebody's drilling a hole in your skull. Putting a hat on your skull, putting eyeglasses on your skull. But it's death. It's the Western image of death. The heart is the Western image of love. Like the pirates used the Jolly Roger with the skull - "Don't fuck around with me. This is could be you if you bother this ship."

SECONDS: Whatever happened to the "mom" tattoo?

WEBB: It's still with us. That will never go away. That was the first tattoo I ever got, probably the best one I ever got, and the only one I will never regret.

SECONDS: How did your mother feel about your tattoos?

WEBB: She wasn't thrilled at all. I was fourteen years old and came home sporting a tattoo. But what could she do? It was done and it was her name. The next tattoo I came home with was a skull and she almost lost her grip.

SECONDS: Have you ever dealt with any scarification?

WEBB: Yeah. I've scarred people and branded them. There's a picture' here in Pushing Ink of me branding Hanky Panky. When I branded that "X" on his hand, be caught the smoke coming up. I branded him with a safety pin I heated it up once, blasted him, and did it again.

SECONDS: What instruments do you tattoo with?

WEBB: I'm so glad you asked that. I use all sorts of different things to tattoo with. Let me show you a piece of sculpture ... these are a lot of tattoo instruments I made.

SECONDS: What kinds of bones are these?

WEBB: These are raccoon penises. Not bad, eh?

SECONDS: It’s kind of cool holding a raccoon penis.

WEBB: "Raccoon dick tattooing done here."

SECONDS: Where did you find all these raccoon dicks?

WEBB: Somebody gave them to me. You see them in the back of hunting magazines. I never heard of a Northerner doing it, but down South they file them to a point and make toothpicks out of them. About two or three weeks ago, Les Barany dropped this off: a buffalo dick. Bull dick as a tattoo instrument.

SECONDS: Have you used them yet?

WEBB: No, I just made them for fun but they're very usable.

SECONDS: Tell me about "scribblism."

WEBB: Scribblism as an art form comes from Jackhammer Joe, my son, who works with me. He woke up one day and got a divine philosophy. He said this is a good concept in tattooing, that when people scribble, their unconscious thoughts are going onto paper and we should take that shit and tattoo it on people. I said, "Far fucking out." That makes sense because that's their real unconscious mind; this is what they're all about. So we did some tattoos like that. People would come in and say, "Spider. I don't know what I want." I'd say "Leave it to me." I'd go over to their house and find by the telephone what they were doodling and then tattoo that on them. To be quite honest, after nine out of ten people saw what I was going to tattoo on them, they lost it and said, "No, I was thinking more of a heart with 'mom' in it!" But we did a series of pieces like that. I thought that was pretty good because you're leaving thought out. Once you get rid of thinking you're on the road to freedom. Like Ray Bradbury, Zen And The Art Of Writing - relax, don 't think, work. If you break that triangle, you're fucked. If you're thinking, you're not relaxed and you can't work. You break that triangle and you're dead.

SECONDS: Haven' t you had some correspondence with Ray Bradbury?

WEBB: Yeah. I don't know how we started corresponding. He sent me a lot of his poems and I would send him shit.

SECONDS: How much emphasis do you put on drawing skills for tattoo artists?

WEBB: If you 're going to do tattooing as a serious commercial venture, then the drawing skills are very important. If you're approaching tattooing from a whole different angle, like this is what I tattoo and that's all I do, then who gives a fuck if you can draw or not? As long as you're giving people what they want.

SECONDS: Are there people that only tattoo the images they believe in?

WEBB: Sure. Prisons are full of them. And so are different cultures where you can only get a certain tattoo if you catch a big fish or kill a big monkey. Of course, all that shit' s going away .., "Go to art school and learn how to draw."

SECONDS: You gave a tattoo on the steps of the Metropolitan Museum Of Art.

WEBB: Yeah, that was with Annie Sprinkle, to challenge the law. Years before that. 1 was tattooing somebody in front of the Museum Of Modern Art.

SECONDS: Why is tattooing illegal in New York?

WEBB: They threw out the baby with the bath water. The Board Of Health's excuse was that they had traced some cases of hepatitis back to a tattoo parlor, I remember that when somebody would commit a crime and they'd put down "Joe Smith, Negro, committed the crime." Then "John Smith tattooist..." The press was giving tattooing a lot of bad press. They figured that if they outlawed tattooing they would stop crime. It didn't work that way. If it really was hepatitis, all you have to do is regulate tattooing like they do barber shops and ear piercing places. You license the people that are going to do it, you charge them money, and then you use that money to regulate.

SECONDS: Have you ever been arrested for tattooing?

WEBB: Yeah, in front of the Museum Of Modern Art. Years later when I did the Met, they wouldn't arrest me - they had such bad publicity from their other experience with me. It was a big media thing, a performance thing with TV cameras; there was shit all over the place. The Met were calling the cops and at one point the reporters went over to the police that were driving by and watching the whole thing and said, "Hey, this guy's breaking the law, go bust him." They were told not to. A higher authority to\d them, "Leave this guy alone. We're just going to look stupid if we bust him." After how-many-hours out there, I made my point and went home.

SECONDS: It would seem that they" re biased against tattooing and what it represents.

WEBB: Freedom. Years ago when there was Communism, they'd come in and take over a country like Cuba and the first thing they'd do was grab the communications, the radio stations and newspapers, and then close down the cathouses and tattoo par/ors. That type of freedom is not allowed. Tattooing is a big freedom. A big one. Take that away and what's next? Masturbation? The Catholic Church took away both of them.

SECONDS: What are the ups and downs of being a tattoo artist in a state where it's banned?

WEBB: I think it affects the public; the people that want to get tattoos. If you're doing something illegal, what's your recourse if something goes wrong? You're committing a crime; the person that's doing the thing is committing a crime - where does that leave everybody? It's just a den of thieves. My mottos tattooed on my leg - "Free men make their own laws and keep them."

SECONDS: How do you explain tattoo addiction?

WEBB: After you get the first one, you find the world doesn't end. Then you want more and you’ll get them. That first one is like losing your virginity. Even if it hurts a little, you'll have sex for the rest of your life. Now, tattooing has gotten so goddamn popular, there's a whole generation of people that are going to grow up and have to reject all this shit their parents have done. It's still opening up. Tattoo parlors are just opening in Poland and Russia; it's just starting to happen there. It's taken a little while. Now the whole world is getting tattooed and they can 't get tattooed fast enough or often enough. Now kids are proud of it, whereas it used to mean you were a gangster or some sort of outlaw. I say it's time to rebel and everybody stop getting these fucking tattoos.

SECONDS: Have you a preference for tattooing men or women?

WEBB: Women. Young, good-looking women have always been my preference. Can we talk about the ultimate canvas? Can we talk about Christina Applegate? I dream about tattooing her.

SECONDS: What famous people have you tattooed?

WEBB: All the biggies - Ernest Borgnine, Lee Marvin, Neville Brand, Johnny Winter - I gave him his first tattoo. Me and Johnny are hanging out and he's over at my studio on Sixth Avenue. He says, "All my life I wanted to get a tattoo." I said, "What's the big deal? Why don't you get one”? He said, "I don't know. I'm afraid it's going to hurt." I said, "You? You've stuck more fucking needles in yourself than anybody in the universe!" He says, "Oh, no, one time in San Francisco I wrote my name on a girl’s tit because she was such a big fan and then we went to a tattoo parlor and the guy tattooed my signature on her. I always wanted one, but I'm afraid it's going to hurt." I said, "Alright Johnny, I'll tattoo you with no ink in the machine. It won't leave a mark and you'll know what it feels like." So me and his wife Susan played Tic-Tac-Toe on his arm and I let her win. Then he said, "This is no big deal" and I gave him a real tattoo. He's unbelievable.

SECONDS: Is there something you prefer in painting that you don't get in tattooing?

WEBB: The canvas doesn't talk back, doesn’t 't vomit, doesn’t 't bleed. The canvas just gives me a different type of headache, but it doesn't give me any money! Painting isn't a collaboration. When you're tattooing, somehow it gets down to a collaboration. People still come to me and say, "Spider, I respect you as an artist. Do whatever you want." The first thing out of my mouth is, "Okay, shithead, I'm tattooing your nose green." Then they say, "I don't want my nose green. Maybe..." Maybe what? A fucking rose on your ankle? What are we talking about here? Don't give me carté blanche and take it away. It's all or nothing. It's really, "Spider, you can do anything you want, as long as it's what I want."

SECONDS: Do you see anything-different happening with tattooing in the future? It's a fairly primitive operation, right?

WEBB: I used to see it that way. You hear those jungle drums and then you stick pins in yourself. Maybe what's new is going back and tattooing the dead. That reminds me of a piece I did in I978. I had just signed a contract with Simon & Schuster to do the book Pushing Ink. I had just scored some fetuses from a doctor. I had been looking for some fetuses to tattoo. So I get the fetuses and me book contract at the same time. I remember saying to the old lady. "If I tattoo these fetuses, they'll probably cancel the book contract I worked ten years for." She said, "What are you going to do?" I said, "What do you mean what am I going to do? I'm going to tattoo the fucking fetus. I don't work for Simon & Schuster." I tattooed the fetus. At the fucking time, I was having a show at the International Center of Photography. They ran a picture of a tattooed fetus in the Village Voice. That was it - the shit hit the fucking fan big time. The Attorney General was after me; they firebombed the gallery, there were threats, protests; they canceled my show, they canceled everything and the whole show took place in the Village Voice. I've got a lot of shit in my life about a lot of different things, but never anything like this.

SECONDS: So what happened with Simon & Schuster?

WEBB: Nothing. That was the weirdest thing. Maybe they didn’t know about it or maybe they were too committed.

SECONDS: Maybe they just took that as good promotion.

WEBB: I don't think so. In those days, tattooing wasn't accepted to the degree it is now, much less tattooing a fetus. That abortion shit never goes away and that really upset a lot of fucking people. I didn't show in New York City for three years after that. People were afraid of what I might show or what I might do. I didn't kill anything. I bought a fetus from a doctor and I tattooed it, put it back in formaldehyde, and eventually I'll give it a decent burial fit for a Viking.